Discussion

This appendix contains a transcript of a discussion between the two assignment authors, Megan Dick and Alastair Reynolds. The purpose of the discussion was to establish collaboratively what form the next stage of the assignment should take, having read each others' literature reviews. This included decisions on the methods by which data should be collected, verified, and analysed.

NOTE: The discussion was carried out on ExcitePal, an Internet-based real-time communications program.

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- Discussion participants : Megan Dick and Al Reynolds -----------------
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Al	Hi Megan
Megan	Hi there. I'm busy rewriting and adding to my literature review. :)
Megan	Just fixing up the ending...have to keep resisting the temptation
	to add stuff.
Al	I know what you mean
Megan	*nod*
Megan	So ... got a plan?
Al	I didn't find your email about what we should discuss
Megan	Hmmmm.....Nothing that started with comments about your review?
Al	Oh yeah - I think I have that one
Al	I've got it - I did read it
Megan	I'm writing a conclusion that runs along the lines of making sure
	the kids learn about M and B castles, not about using the program.
Al	Conclusion for which bit?
Megan	The literature review.
Al	Sorry, I was confused.
Megan	Trying something ... look at this ...
Megan	These principles seem an effective way of judging whether or not 
	students are engaged in the simulation they are using. Principles 3, 
	4, and 8 respond well to the need to motivate students. If the 
	software they are using is interesting, fun and provides students 
	with the chance to be in control of their own learning environment, 
	students will be motivated. An important point is that the software 
	must contain the knowledge that the teacher wants the student to 
	learn. In the History simulation, students should learn about 
	building Motte and Bailey castles, not simply how to use the 
	simulation program.
Megan	That paragraph is what I'm putting after the principles.
Al	Ok - that's a bit like mine because I'm not interested in pupils
	learning how to use the computers, only the Maths
Megan	Ok....so we need to log something right? What is the aim of this 
	then? To discuss each other's reviews and talk about how we are 
	doing our research? Or how we are going to evaluate our results?
Al	Yes, discussion of the literature reviews and (more importantly) how 
	we're going to do and analyse research.
Al	So I suggest that we first of all discuss the lit reviews here.
Megan	Do we need to discuss HOW we do research here? I don't rememeber 
	doing that last time ... more like discussing how we were going to 
	use the reviews to analyse out stuff.
Al	But last time the research was mainly describing the situation.  
	This time we are planning something out.  We can discuss generally 
	how we plan to look at effectiveness of our activities.
Al	Like we had the plan of asking pupils about whatever we are trying 
	to teach them before and after.
Megan	And asking teachers about how they percieved the learning.
Al	Yeah, stuff like that.  And comparing what happens with the theory 
	in the lit review for analysing.
Megan	Ok, so lets have a plan ...
Al	OK
Al	-------------------------------------
Al	I liked the way your literature review was very specific to 
	simulations, but still related to the work I am planning.
Al	Mine had to be more general because I wasn't clear on what type of 
	learning was going on in my activity, whereas yours is more 
	obviously situated learning.
Megan	I read your literature review and thought there was some interesting
	stuff in there that related to my study on the History simulation.
Megan	Specifically the stuff from Scrimshaw.
Al	Scrimshaw talked about the factors which can lead to more effective 
	learning didn't he?  I thought the bit about teachers having clear 
	objectives was probably useful to both of us.
Megan	My research is going to be pretty focused on "Have the kids learned 
	the important historical facts about simulations, not about how to 
	use the program."
Al	That sounds sensible - I'm looking to establish the type of learning 
	which is happening.
Megan	Yeah, Scrimshaw also said that that teacher involvement in 
	co-operative ICT work is essential.
Al	Which will be true in any situated learning context, regardless of 
	the level of authenticity.
Al	I think the teacher's objectives will be one of the keys to 
	evaluating effectiveness.  We can look at whether our objectives 
	have been met.  And look at other teachers' objectives as well.
Megan	Right. So I need to ask the teachers what they want the students to 
	learn by using the simulation and then ask the students what they 
	think they have learned.
Al	That seems a good way of doing it.
Al	I was interested in the bit in your review about how using IT itself 
	produces situated learning about IT and that learning is a process 
	of becoming better learners through experience of learning.
Megan	Where was this?
Al	para.3 John Brown et al
Megan	Checking......
Megan	Ah right. That learning how and learning what co-produce knowledge.
Al	Yes.
Megan	Can this realte to your study?
Al	Well - I have this tendency to ignore the fact that they are 
	learning about how to use a computer to help them with their Maths - 
	it's an important skill which is hard to develop through direct 
	instruction.
Megan	And also, by the way, students become better at co-operative 
	learning through using applications.
Al	Perhaps this should be another objective for my IT tasks
Megan	Cooperative learning or learning about computers?
Al	Learning how computers can help learn Maths.
Megan	Ummm....don't get you.
Al	Because pupils aren't very aware of how computers can help them in 
	mathematical problem-solving and it's something that's very 
	difficult to teach, so perhaps the best way is to involve them in a 
	problem-solving process as participants rather than observers?
Megan	So you will ask them if they have become more aware of it?
Al	Problem-solving skill?
Megan	Right.
Al	I don't think I will in this case because it's a bit off the point, 
	but I might have a think about researching it later.
Megan	Also, in my review there is quite a bit about designing effective 
	software. I think those things will also be useful to see if the 
	program or activity we use is one that is well designed with clear 
	objectives inherent in it too.
Megan	Ok, what is our title again? It is on my other computer ... sorry.
Al	Evaluation of effectiveness in two case studies of learning using IT
Megan	Well ... we are studying learning with ICT, so our objectives will
	deal with what we (as teachers) want the students to learn from the 
	activities, and then whether they have learned it?
Al	Absolutely.
Megan	Right, thanks.
Al	Did you see the effectiveness section of my lit review?
Al	We could maybe look at these factors to help explain why or why not 
	our task was effective?
Megan	Looking.....
Megan	Yeah, the bit with Scrimshaw.
Al	I thought then we could triangulate between these three things:
Al	(1) pupil responses before and after
Al	(2) teacher objectives and perception of task
Al	(3) research on effectiveness
Al	to get an idea whether the task was effective.
Megan	So, for me, my objectives are as stated above ... I want the 
	students to learn the important aspects of building a Motte and 
	Bailey Castle, and I want to make sure they learn it....and ask the 
	other teachers using the application if they have specific learning 
	objectives for the students as well.
Megan	Ok on the triangulation, but for (1) I want to look at the pupils 
	responses DURING their use of the program.
Megan	Like, what do they think they are learning?
Al	Me too actually.
Megan	To see if that triangulates with what the teachers percieve.
Al	Yes - it will be interesting to see if what teachers percieve is 
	happening is actually happening
Al	I think I will observe them during, but also ask questions before 
	and after.
Megan	I can't see how to ask before and after, as they will not know 
	specifically what I want them to have reinforced by the simulation.
Al	True - in my case they will already have covered some of the work 
	(some of them) and they will not be at too much of a disadvantage 
	answering questions.
Megan	For (3) there is also the question of whether the application itself 
	has problems or is effective.
Al	Yes, and you had those guidelines about whether software is good or 
	not.
Megan	Yep.
Al	Which don't apply to me as much because the software isn't actually 
	central to the task in my case.
Megan	Hmmmm, so what will be the method of enquiry? I guess all the stuff 
	we have just mentioned?
Al	Yep,
Al	Talk to pupils & staff, observe activity, compare with literature.
Megan	Ok, so we have how we are going to do this ... and do we have how we 
	are going to judge the answer to our study?
Al	I think so
Megan	Have we defined 'effectiveness' then?
Megan	I think we have ...
Al	We need to compare the evidence we have collected with our 
	understanding of effective learning, to make an assessment of 
	whether the task was effective
Megan	Comparison of what the pupils learn and what the teachers wanted 
	them to learn. And also for me, whether the application is effective 
	in teaching what we want them to leran.
Al	I think we had the bit about effectiveness being 'achieving the 
	desired effect' ie our teaching and learning objectives were met.
Al	So that pretty much covers it.
Megan	My understanding of effective learning is "Have they learned what 
	the teachers think is the key bit of knowlwedge about building Motte 
	and Bailey castles."
Al	Because that's the teacher's objective.
Megan	Right. :)
Al	So we're ready to go off and do this research then?
Megan	Right again.
Al	When do we next need to chat as part of the assignment?
Megan	Once we have gotten our data and applied it to our study? I guess 
	when we have written the case study bits.
Al	Seems sensible.
Megan	And then we can study each others and come up with conclusions.
Al	So, i'll write this one up as you're pretty busy right now.
Al	We'll have a section after the lit reviews before the research stuff 
	about what we plan to do.
Megan	And I'll send you my final finished litrev sometime this week?
Al	Fine
Al	See you later.
Megan	Bye.
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